Another Visit to Rant and Reason

If you follow this blog, you know that I like to visit the blog of the American Humanist Association, Rant and Reason. I love the new name they have given their blog...it is so fitting.

I think I originally went there because I like to debate, but I believe God is changing my heart. My honest desire now is to two-fold:
1) try to understand how non-Christians view Christians and the world, and
2) to show these people who, for the most part, have considered their lives of non-belief in much more detail than most Christians I know have considered their faith, that Christianity is reasonable (I question their arguments and explain the Christian world view when I can) and compassionate (they hear from a lot of "Christian" people who tell them God hates them and they are going to hell...or some similar variation).

And I have noticed that as the tone of my comments to their blog postings have changed, the bloggers have been more open to discussion with me. Jesus talked to a lot of people who did not believe in Him. Although they did not yet believe, they wanted to hang out with Him and talk. That's kinda what I'm trying to do online...meet non-believers and talk with them about their world in their terms. I'm certainly not very natural at it yet, but I'm working on it. And I hope what I'm learning online I will be able to apply with people in the real world (even less 'natural' for me!).

And so I'd like to close with a copy/paste to my comment and the blogger's response to their posting Ousting Nuns for Clergy Settlement. Obviously my comment and her response will make more sense if you read the posting linked to here.

MY COMMENT
If I understand your post correctly, I share your moral outrage. But your closing comment was a bit disappointing, when you throw in “if this is representative of the values that the religious right says we atheists can’t have without God, well then thank goodness we don’t.” Who, in the ‘religious right’ is touting this particular case as an example of ‘morality’? I would fall into the group you categorize as the religious right, and I, too, am outraged at the cover up and the lack of severe consequences for those who committed AND covered up these crimes against children.

If there is someone in particular in the religious right that you know of who is defending this as ‘moral’, then say who it is so we can denounce it as wrong. If not, please don’t put words in our mouths and then attack us as if we said it ourselves.

On a side note, the more I have read (I did read “I Sold My Soul on Ebay” thanks to the review here) and conversed with atheists here and other places online, I have changed my opinion about atheists and morals. I have met a number of atheists who I have to say have definite moral/ethical standards, and sadly to me, a number of them have higher standards that many Christians. Obviously, it is the standard by which we establish or measure those values that we still disagree about.

BLOGGER'S REPLY
You’re right Rob it was a cheap shot and I apologize. I was very angry when I was writing but that’s no excuse. I’m sure the majority of people of all creeds or no creed we’re outraged by that particular action. Thank you for calling me on it.

I’m glad you got to read “I Sold My Soul on Ebay” and that you either enjoyed it or it had an impact on you. I’ve read some of Dietrich Bonhoeffer and Paul Tillich been moved by there writings and even some of your comments here. I know that I’m never right when I over generalize. I’m glad we keep moving the discussion along.

Chatting with the Humansists

If you have been reading my blog for a while, you know that I occasionally posted conversations I have had with staff bloggers on the Humanist News web site. It was not until last week that I realized I have not had anything new from them show up in my Google Reader feed for their blog, so I went to check it out. They "updated" their blog, and it is now called Rant and Reason (very clever name).

What made me think about them was a Fox News article I read entitled San Diego Firefighters File Complaint for Being Forced to Attend Gay Pride Parade. I went to the new Rant and Rave web site, looked up the email address for one of the staff bloggers I had conversed with before and sent this this email:

Hey Maggie,

Rob here...I'm the Christian that visits your site from time to time (been a while now) and comments. I'm writing to you rather than some of the other "newer" folks 'cause I thought you might remember me.

Anyway, here is a news story I would be interested to hear somebody's take on there. Don't know if anybody will blog it or not, but thought I'd send it your way anyway.

San Diego Firefighters File Complaint for Being Forced to Attend Gay Pride Parade

I think I have a pretty good idea what you guys would say if a firefighter were forced to attend a "religious" parade but was hoping to hear some thoughts on this one.

Does Fred not blog anymore?

Have a good week,
Rob

To which she replied:

Hi Rob,

Great article! I’ll definitely blog on it, since I myself haven’t found much to blog about this week. And you’re absolutely right: as I would never want anyone to be forced to attend a “religious” parade, nor should anyone be forced to attend a gay pride parade.

Fred indeed no longer blogs … his work keeps him pretty busy and we needed to have writers who could dedicate at least one blog entry a week.

Thanks! -Maggie

You can read her blog posting here. Be sure to read the comment section as well. I haven't posted a comment yet. I just replied to a different post yesterday and I suggested the material for this post, so don't know if I will or not, but I thought it was all an interesting read anyway. Being "logical" is very important to these people and I often point out when I feel they are not being consistent when it comes to Christian matters, so I had to point this one out. At least Maggie is being consistent.

More Conversations with the Humanists

This post ran in the Humanist News blog today:

The New York Times reported today that the Bush Administration filed a settlement agreement that will allow the Wiccan Pentacle to be inscribed on government-issued memorial markers--such as headstones, grave markers, and memorial plaques--for deceased veterans. The religious liberty watchdog group, Americans United, had originally sued the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs in November, citing evidence that the VA refused to recognize the Pentacle due to bias toward the Wiccan faith.

The VA isn’t the only one to show bias against Wicca. In 1999, while he was governor of Texas, George W. Bush appeared on “Good Morning America” to talk about Wiccan soldiers being allowed to worship at Fort Hood: “I don’t think witchcraft is a religion," he said. "I would hope the military officials would take a second look at the decision they made.”

In an Americans United press release, AU legal director Ayesha N. Khan commented, "It is rank hypocrisy for this administration to claim publicly that it cares about religious freedom and equality but then to quietly and deliberately discriminate against a minority faith like Wicca.”

Bravo for Americans United. If the government is going to sanction some religious symbols they must recognize them all. Let’s hope this principle is kept in mind the next time someone tries to erect a Ten Commandments statue on a courthouse lawn.

(BTW – the VA has recognized the Happy Humanist as an approved symbol for government memorial markers since 2001.)

Having read this blog for...maybe a year now, I realize they claim to be about freedom from religion, but in reality, they are about freedom from Christianity. I felt this post pointed that out quite well, so I commented. The writers for the blog usually respond politely enough, but recently other readers have been trashing me. I sure am glad Christians are the only "intolerant" people! Anyway, I'll let you know what happens.

This blog claims that a belief in God is foolish, yet it seems you spend more time arguing about God than anything else. If it is so obvious that God does not exist, why does a belief in him threaten you so?

Does this post really make sense to you? You commend a Wiccan religious symbol being approved/accepted, yet you rail against the 10 Commandments being displayed? Does that not tell you something? If there is nothing to this "God thing", why does it get under your skin so badly?

In this great country, you are free to despise the faith that made it great and you are free to share your opinions. I try to understand your beliefs (or at least where you are coming from), and that is why I visit here. But I am continually amazed that it doesn't seem odd to anyone that such a simple "foolish" faith bothers you so much so as to consume so much of your time and energies.

But I do appreciate the honesty in this post. You are not so much about freedom from religion as you are about freedom from Christianity. That's not what you claim you believe, but that is what the content of this blog often seems to show. Ever asked 'why'?